IRC.

1 files changed, 126 insertions, 63 deletions

diff --git a/open_issues/anatomy_of_a_hurd_system.mdwn b/open_issues/anatomy_of_a_hurd_system.mdwn
index 11a1f754..75a62535 100644
--- a/open_issues/anatomy_of_a_hurd_system.mdwn
+++ b/open_issues/anatomy_of_a_hurd_system.mdwn
@@ -323,7 +323,9 @@ Actually, the Hurd has never used an M:N model. Both libthreads (cthreads) and l
     <braunr> etc..
 
 
-# IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2012-12-06
+# Service Directory
+
+## IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2012-12-06
 
     <spiderweb> what is the #1 feature that distinguished hurd from other
       operating systems. the concept of translators. (will read more when I get
@@ -333,56 +335,7 @@ Actually, the Hurd has never used an M:N model. Both libthreads (cthreads) and l
     <braunr> and the VFS permissions to control access to those services
 
 
-# IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2012-12-10
-
-    <spiderweb> I want to work on hurd, but I think I'm going to start with
-      minix, I own the minix book 3rd ed. it seems like a good intro to
-      operating systems in general. like I don't even know what a semaphore is
-      yet.
-    <braunr> well, enjoy learning :)
-    <spiderweb> once I finish that book, what reading do you guys recommend?
-    <spiderweb> other than the wiki
-    <braunr> i wouldn't recommend starting with a book that focuses on one
-      operating system anyway
-    <braunr> you tend to think in terms of what is done in that specific
-      implementation and compare everything else to that
-    <braunr> tannenbaum is not only the main author or minix, but also the one
-      of the book http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_Operating_Systems
-    <braunr>
-      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_important_publications_in_computer_science#Operating_systems
-      should be a pretty good list :)
-
-
-# IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2013-03-12
-
-    <mjjc> i have a question regarding ipc in hurd. if a task is created, does
-      it contain any default port rights in its space? i am trying to deduce
-      how one calls dir_lookup() on the root translator in glibc's open().
-    <kilobug> mjjc: yes, there are some default port rights, but I don't
-      remember the details :/
-    <mjjc> kilobug: do you know where i should search for details?
-    <kilobug> mjjc: hum either in the Hurd's hacking guide
-      https://www.gnu.org/software/hurd/hacking-guide/ or directly in the
-      source code of exec server/libc I would say, or just ask again the
-      question here later on to see if someone else has more information
-    <mjjc> ok, thanks
-    <pinotree> there's also rpctrace to, as the name says, trace all the rpc's
-      executed
-    <braunr> some ports are introduced in new tasks, yes
-    <braunr> see
-      http://www.gnu.org/software/hurd/hacking-guide/hhg.html#The-main-function
-    <braunr> and
-    <braunr>
-      http://www.gnu.org/software/hurd/gnumach-doc/Task-Special-Ports.html#Task-Special-Ports
-    <mjjc> yes, the second link was just what i was looking for, thanks
-    <braunr> the second is very general
-    <braunr> also, the first applies to translators only
-    <braunr> if you're looking for how to do it for a non-translator
-      application, the answer is probably somewhere in glibc
-    <braunr> _hurd_startup i'd guess
-
-
-# IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2013-05-23
+## IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2013-05-23
 
     <gnu_srs> Hi, is there any efficient way to control which backed
       translators are called via RPC with a user space program?
@@ -409,18 +362,7 @@ Actually, the Hurd has never used an M:N model. Both libthreads (cthreads) and l
       same as for regular files
     <braunr> gnu_srs: this *must* be obvious for you to do any tricky work on
       the hurd
-    <gnu_srs> fsysopts /servers/socket/2 works by /1 gives Operation not
-      supported.
-
-[[!taglink open_issue_hurd]].
-
-    <braunr> ah right, some servers don't implement that
-    <braunr> work around this by using showtrans
-    <braunr> fsysopts asks the server itself how it's running, usually giving
-      its command name and options
-    <braunr> showtrans asks the parent how it starts a passive translator
-      attached to the node
-    <gnu_srs> Yes showtrans works :), thanks.
+
     <gnu_srs> Anyway, if I create a test program calling io_stat I assume
       S_io_stat in pflocal is called.
     <gnu_srs> How to make the program call S_io_stat in pfinet instead? 
@@ -447,6 +389,127 @@ Actually, the Hurd has never used an M:N model. Both libthreads (cthreads) and l
       implementation
 
 
+## IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2013-06-30
+
+    <hacklu> hi, what is the replacer of netname_check_in? 
+
+    <hacklu> I want to ask another question. in my opinion, the rpc is the
+      mach's way, and the translator is the hurd's way. so somebody want to
+      lookup a service, it should not need to ask the mach kernel know about
+      this query. the hurd will take the control. 
+    <hacklu> am I right?
+    <braunr> no
+    <braunr> that's nonsense
+    <braunr> service lookups has never been in mach
+    <braunr> first mach based systems used a service directory, whereas the
+      hurd uses the file system for that
+    <braunr> you still need mach to communicate with either of those
+    <hacklu> how to understand the term of service directory here?
+    <braunr> a server everyone knows
+    <braunr> which gives references to other servers
+    <braunr> usually, depending on the name
+    <braunr> e.g. name_lookup("net") -> port right to network server
+    <hacklu> is that people use netname_check_in to register service in the
+      past? now used libtrivfs?
+    <braunr> i don't know about netname_check_in
+    <braunr> old mach (not gnumach) documentation might mention this service
+      directory
+    <braunr> libtrivfs doesn't have much to do with that
+    <braunr> on the hurd, the equivalent is the file system
+    <hacklu> maybe that is outdate, I just found that exist old doc, and old
+      code which can't be build.
+    <braunr> every process knows /
+    <braunr> the file system is the service directory
+    <braunr> nodes refer to services
+    <hacklu> so the file system is the nameserver, any new service should
+      register in it before other can use
+    <braunr> and the file system is distributed, so looking up a service may
+      require several queries
+    <braunr> setting a translator is exactly that, registering a program to
+      service requests on a node
+    <braunr> the file system isn't one server though
+    <braunr> programs all know about /, but then, lookups are recursive
+    <braunr> e.g. if you have / and /home, and are looking for
+      /home/hacklu/.profile, you ask / which tells you about /home, and /home
+      will give you a right to /home/hacklu/.profile
+    <hacklu> even in the past, the mach don't provide name register service,
+      there must be an other server to provide this service?
+    <braunr> yes
+    <braunr> what's nonsense in your sentence is comparing RPCs and translators
+    <braunr> translators are merely servers attached to the file system, using
+      RPCs to communicate with the rest of the system
+    <hacklu> I know yet, the two just one thing.
+    <braunr> no
+    <braunr> two things :p
+    <braunr> completely different and unrelated except for one using the other
+    <hacklu> ah, just one used aonther one.
+    <hacklu> is exist anyway to anounce service except settrans with file node?
+    <braunr> more or less
+    <braunr> tasks can have special ports
+    <braunr> that's how one task knows about / for example
+    <braunr> at task creation, a right to / is inserted in the new task
+    <hacklu> I think this is also a file node way.
+    <braunr> no
+    <braunr> if i'm right, auth is referenced the same way
+    <braunr> and there is no node for auth
+    <hacklu> how the user get the port of auth with node?
+    <braunr> it's given when a task is created
+    <hacklu> pre-set in the creation of one task?
+    <braunr> i'm unconfortable with "pre-set"
+    <braunr> inserted at creation time
+    <braunr> auth is started very early
+    <braunr> then tasks are given a reference to it
+
+
+# IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2012-12-10
+
+    <spiderweb> I want to work on hurd, but I think I'm going to start with
+      minix, I own the minix book 3rd ed. it seems like a good intro to
+      operating systems in general. like I don't even know what a semaphore is
+      yet.
+    <braunr> well, enjoy learning :)
+    <spiderweb> once I finish that book, what reading do you guys recommend?
+    <spiderweb> other than the wiki
+    <braunr> i wouldn't recommend starting with a book that focuses on one
+      operating system anyway
+    <braunr> you tend to think in terms of what is done in that specific
+      implementation and compare everything else to that
+    <braunr> tannenbaum is not only the main author or minix, but also the one
+      of the book http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_Operating_Systems
+    <braunr>
+      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_important_publications_in_computer_science#Operating_systems
+      should be a pretty good list :)
+
+
+# IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2013-03-12
+
+    <mjjc> i have a question regarding ipc in hurd. if a task is created, does
+      it contain any default port rights in its space? i am trying to deduce
+      how one calls dir_lookup() on the root translator in glibc's open().
+    <kilobug> mjjc: yes, there are some default port rights, but I don't
+      remember the details :/
+    <mjjc> kilobug: do you know where i should search for details?
+    <kilobug> mjjc: hum either in the Hurd's hacking guide
+      https://www.gnu.org/software/hurd/hacking-guide/ or directly in the
+      source code of exec server/libc I would say, or just ask again the
+      question here later on to see if someone else has more information
+    <mjjc> ok, thanks
+    <pinotree> there's also rpctrace to, as the name says, trace all the rpc's
+      executed
+    <braunr> some ports are introduced in new tasks, yes
+    <braunr> see
+      http://www.gnu.org/software/hurd/hacking-guide/hhg.html#The-main-function
+    <braunr> and
+    <braunr>
+      http://www.gnu.org/software/hurd/gnumach-doc/Task-Special-Ports.html#Task-Special-Ports
+    <mjjc> yes, the second link was just what i was looking for, thanks
+    <braunr> the second is very general
+    <braunr> also, the first applies to translators only
+    <braunr> if you're looking for how to do it for a non-translator
+      application, the answer is probably somewhere in glibc
+    <braunr> _hurd_startup i'd guess
+
+
 # IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2013-06-15
 
     <damo22> ive been reading a little about exokernels or unikernels, and i