IRC.

1 files changed, 96 insertions, 15 deletions

diff --git a/open_issues/anatomy_of_a_hurd_system.mdwn b/open_issues/anatomy_of_a_hurd_system.mdwn
index 99ef170b..3e585876 100644
--- a/open_issues/anatomy_of_a_hurd_system.mdwn
+++ b/open_issues/anatomy_of_a_hurd_system.mdwn
@@ -13,7 +13,10 @@ License|/fdl]]."]]"""]]
 A bunch of this should also be covered in other (introductionary) material,
 like Bushnell's Hurd paper.  All this should be unfied and streamlined.
 
-IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2011-03-08:
+[[!toc]]
+
+
+# IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2011-03-08
 
     <foocraft> I've a question on what are the "units" in the hurd project, if
       you were to divide them into units if they aren't, and what are the
@@ -38,9 +41,8 @@ IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2011-03-08:
     <antrik> no
     <antrik> servers often depend on other servers for certain functionality
 
----
 
-IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2011-03-12:
+# IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2011-03-12
 
     <dEhiN> when mach first starts up, does it have some basic i/o or fs
       functionality built into it to start up the initial hurd translators?
@@ -72,24 +74,24 @@ IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2011-03-12:
     <antrik> it also does some bootstrapping work during startup, to bring the
       rest of the system up
 
----
+
+# Source Code Documentation
 
 Provide a cross-linked sources documentation, including generated files, like
 RPC stubs.
 
   * <http://www.gnu.org/software/global/>
 
----
 
-[[Hurd_101]].
+# [[Hurd_101]]
+
 
----
+# [[hurd/IO_path]]
 
-More stuff like [[hurd/IO_path]].
+Need more stuff like that.
 
----
 
-IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2011-10-18:
+# IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2011-10-18
 
     <frhodes> what happens @ boot. and which translators are started in what
       order?
@@ -97,9 +99,8 @@ IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2011-10-18:
       ext2; ext2 starts exec; ext2 execs a few other servers; ext2 execs
       init. from there on, it's just standard UNIX stuff
 
----
 
-IRC, OFTC, #debian-hurd, 2011-11-02:
+# IRC, OFTC, #debian-hurd, 2011-11-02
 
     <sekon_> is __dir_lookup a RPC ??
     <sekon_> where can i find the source of __dir_lookup ??
@@ -123,9 +124,8 @@ IRC, OFTC, #debian-hurd, 2011-11-02:
     <tschwinge> sekon_: This may help a bit:
       http://www.gnu.org/software/hurd/hurd/hurd_hacking_guide.html
 
----
 
-IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2012-01-08:
+# IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2012-01-08
 
     <abique> can you tell me how is done in hurd:  "ls | grep x" ?
     <abique> in bash
@@ -187,7 +187,8 @@ IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2012-01-08:
     <antrik> that's probably the most fundamental design feature of the Hurd
     <antrik> (all filesystem operations actually, not only lookups)
 
-IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2012-01-09:
+
+## IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2012-01-09
 
     <braunr> youpi: are you sure cthreads are M:N ? i'm almost sure they're 1:1
     <braunr> and no modern OS is a right place for any thread userspace
@@ -266,3 +267,83 @@ IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2012-01-09:
     <youpi> they help only when the threads are living
     <braunr> ok
     <youpi> now as I said I don't have to talk much more, I have to leave :)
+
+
+# IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2012-12-06
+
+    <braunr> spiderweb: have you read
+      http://www.gnu.org/software/hurd/hurd-paper.html ?
+    <spiderweb> I'll have a look.
+    <braunr> and also the beginning of
+      http://ftp.sceen.net/mach/mach_a_new_kernel_foundation_for_unix_development.pdf
+    <braunr> these two should provide a good look at the big picture the hurd
+      attemtps to achieve
+    <Tekk_> I can't help but wonder though, what advantages were really
+      achieved with early mach?
+    <Tekk_> weren't they just running a monolithic unix server like osx does?
+    <braunr> most mach-based systems were
+    <braunr> but thanks to that, they could provide advanced features over
+      other well established unix systems
+    <braunr> while also being compatible
+    <Tekk_> so basically it was just an ease of development thing
+    <braunr> well that's what mach aimed at being
+    <braunr> same for the hurd
+    <braunr> making things easy
+    <Tekk_> but as a side effect hurd actually delivers on the advantages of
+      microkernels aside from that, but the older systems wouldn't, correct?
+    <braunr> that's how there could be network file systems in very short time
+      and very scarce resources (i.e. developers working on it), while on other
+      systems it required a lot more to accomplish that
+    <braunr> no, it's not a side effect of the microkernel
+    <braunr> the hurd retains and extends the concept of flexibility introduced
+      by mach
+    <Tekk_> the improved stability, etc. isn't a side effect of being able to
+      restart generally thought of as system-critical processes?
+    <braunr> no
+    <braunr> you can't restart system critical processes on the hurd either
+    <braunr> that's one feature of minix, and they worked hard on it
+    <Tekk_> ah, okay. so that's currently just the domain of minix
+    <Tekk_> okay
+    <Tekk_> spiderweb: well, there's 1 advantage of minix for you :P
+    <braunr> the main idea of mach is to make it easy to extend unix
+    <braunr> without having hundreds of system calls
+    <braunr> the hurd keeps that and extends it by making many operations
+      unprivileged
+    <braunr> you don't need special code for kernel modules any more
+    <braunr> it's easy
+    <braunr> you don't need special code to handle suid bits and other ugly
+      similar hacks,
+    <braunr> it's easy
+    <braunr> you don't need fuse
+    <braunr> easy
+    <braunr> etc..
+
+
+# IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2012-12-06
+
+    <spiderweb> what is the #1 feature that distinguished hurd from other
+      operating systems. the concept of translators. (will read more when I get
+      more time).
+    <braunr> yes, translators
+    <braunr> using the VFS as a service directory
+    <braunr> and the VFS permissions to control access to those services
+
+
+# IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2012-12-10
+
+    <spiderweb> I want to work on hurd, but I think I'm going to start with
+      minix, I own the minix book 3rd ed. it seems like a good intro to
+      operating systems in general. like I don't even know what a semaphore is
+      yet.
+    <braunr> well, enjoy learning :)
+    <spiderweb> once I finish that book, what reading do you guys recommend?
+    <spiderweb> other than the wiki
+    <braunr> i wouldn't recommend starting with a book that focuses on one
+      operating system anyway
+    <braunr> you tend to think in terms of what is done in that specific
+      implementation and compare everything else to that
+    <braunr> tannenbaum is not only the main author or minix, but also the one
+      of the book http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_Operating_Systems
+    <braunr>
+      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_important_publications_in_computer_science#Operating_systems
+      should be a pretty good list :)