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-[[!meta copyright="Copyright © 2011 Free Software Foundation, Inc."]]
-
-[[!meta license="""[[!toggle id="license" text="GFDL 1.2+"]][[!toggleable
-id="license" text="Permission is granted to copy, distribute and/or modify this
-document under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.2 or
-any later version published by the Free Software Foundation; with no Invariant
-Sections, no Front-Cover Texts, and no Back-Cover Texts.  A copy of the license
-is included in the section entitled [[GNU Free Documentation
-License|/fdl]]."]]"""]]
-
-[[!tag open_issue_hurd]]
-
-IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2011-07-25
-
-    < youpi> Mmm, typing something on the mach console triggers a write on the
-      disk
-    < youpi> because the /dev/console node gets updated
-    < youpi> I don't really see why
-    < youpi> (yes, just typing at the bash prompt, not even running something)
-    < youpi> typing during the sleep command (i.e. mere tty echo) doesn't
-      trigger it, however
-    < youpi> running bash's echo does trigger it
-    < braunr> during sleep, the glibc stream functions handle I/O, while with
-      bash, its readline takes care of it, right ?
-    < youpi>  /bin/echo too
-    < youpi> during sleep it's the tty process which handles I/O
-    < braunr> the write may be due to a write time update on the inode
-    < braunr> modification* time
-    < youpi> probably yes, but how so?
-    < youpi> ext2fs is only supposed to pass the thing to the console
-      translator
-    < braunr> not sure
-    < youpi> actually, ext2fs even isn't supposed to come into play when it's
-      about typing at the bash prompt
-    < youpi> once it's opened, isn't the port for /dev/console supposed to be
-      directly to the translator there?
-    < braunr> i think so
-    < youpi> (s/tty/term/ in what I said)
-    < braunr> well, it's certain
-    < youpi> so I don't see how ext2fs can be triggered to write an atime or
-      mtime
-    < braunr> what does rpctrace say ?
-    < youpi> io_read_request and io_write_request
-    < youpi> braunr: it doesn't happen at the login prompt
-    < youpi> interestingly, atime is always 3-4 secs earlier than ctime & mtime
-    < youpi> doesn't happen with dash
-    < braunr> we should implement relatime and experiment with it
-    < braunr> it shouldn't be hard
-    < youpi> well, there's noatime already
-    < youpi> but my point is that this update shouldn't happen
-    < youpi> and I believe it's the source of the i_file_acl e2fsck warning
-    < braunr> i wasn't saying that concerning this problem, it was just a
-      separate idea (noatime is more problematic than relatime)
-    < braunr> and i agree, it shouldn't happen :)
-    < youpi> ok, it's set_node_times which gets called
-
-IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2011-07-27
-
-    < antrik> BTW, I'm not sure it's still relevant; but the reason accessing
-      translators such as the console modifies the underlying node is that most
-      stat information is generally passed through
-    < antrik> (in some cases it might be unintentional though, simply using the
-      default implementation from trivfs carelessly...)
-    < youpi> I know
-    < youpi> I've seen that in the code
-    < antrik> OK
-    < youpi> it is still relevant: I still find it useless to write it on the
-      disk
-    < youpi> though w uses it to show idle time over reboot
-    < braunr> is it useful to keep the information across reboots ?
-    < youpi> for some value of "useful" for w
-    < braunr> i wonder what would break if this was entierly kept in memory
-    < youpi> nothing, probably
-    < youpi> note that it doesn't overload ext2fs so much, it just adds a write
-      every ~5s
-    < youpi> (at worse, i.e. when keeping showing text, for instance)
-    < braunr> indeed, the behaviour seems the same on linux
-    < antrik> ah... that explains why the disk doesn't spin down while IRC is
-      active... always wondered about that :-)
-    < youpi> that's not very power-saving, yes
-    < youpi> well, we might want to put /dev on ram someday