Merge branch 'master' of git.savannah.gnu.org:/srv/git/hurd/web

16 files changed, 968 insertions, 144 deletions

diff --git a/open_issues/anatomy_of_a_hurd_system.mdwn b/open_issues/anatomy_of_a_hurd_system.mdwn
index 33635b80..496d2a06 100644
--- a/open_issues/anatomy_of_a_hurd_system.mdwn
+++ b/open_issues/anatomy_of_a_hurd_system.mdwn
@@ -1327,3 +1327,104 @@ Actually, the Hurd has never used an M:N model. Both libthreads (cthreads) and l
     <teythoon> load it from grub instead of /hurd/ext2fs.static
     <teythoon> look at the grub config for how this is done
     <teythoon> let me know if it worked ;)
+
+
+# IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2014-03-04
+
+    <bwright> Can I run a single instance of hurd on multiple computers
+    <bwright> With them acting as different servers?
+    <braunr> no
+    <bwright> Like the fs server on one pc etc.
+    <bwright> Which os could I do this with?
+    <bwright> I assumed Mach RPC would support that.
+    <braunr> it can
+    <braunr> but we don't use it that way
+    <braunr> plan9 is probably better suited to what you want
+    <braunr> inferno too
+    <braunr> maybe dragonflybsd
+    <bwright> Yep.
+    <bwright> irAwesome.
+    <bwright> Plan9 is exactly it.
+    <braunr> enjoy
+
+
+# IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2014-03-11
+
+    <ltx> Does anyone have a distributed OS over GNU/hurd project running?
+    <ltx> (GNU/hurd has many of the utilities to make this easy, but it still
+      requires some more utilities for transparent computation)
+    <braunr> not at the moment, no
+    <braunr> and i consider our ipc inappropriate if you want system able to
+      run over heterogeneous hardware
+    <braunr> or rather, our RPCs
+    <ltx> I haven't spent the time, this is speculative (in the worse "let's do
+      everything magically!" way.)
+    <ltx> Just wondering if this exists outside of plan9 (which is limited in
+      some ways.)
+    <braunr> dragonflybsd had plans for a SSI
+    <braunr> there are ancient research systems that actually did the job
+    <braunr> such as amoeba
+    <braunr> here at the hurd, we just don't have the manpower, and the people
+      spending time on the project have other interests
+    <ltx> Yeah, that seems like a large problem.
+    <ltx> GNU/hurd is self hosting (in the "I like working on it" way), yes?
+    <ltx> I've done some work on it, but don't really know how nice it is.
+    <braunr> yes it is
+    <ltx> Working from a microkernel to add pseudo-SSI features to a bunch of
+      servers seems like a much more trivial task than, say, modifying TLK.
+    <braunr> posix conformance and stability are good enough that more than 70%
+      of debian packages build and most of them work fine
+    <braunr> tlk the linux kernel ?
+    <ltx> Yes.
+    <braunr> first time i see this acronym :)
+    <braunr> and yes i agree, a microkernel is much much more suited for that
+    <braunr> but then, i consider a microkernel better suited for practically
+      everything ... :)
+    <ltx> :)
+    <ltx> I'm wondering how to mix SSI with network-awareness.
+    <braunr> mach used to have a network server
+    <braunr> which would merely act as a proxy for capabilities
+    <braunr> network drivers were in kernel though
+    <ltx> That's the simple way of sharing the sources.
+    <ltx> I'm wondering how we can make a software stack that's network aware;
+      completely transparent SSI can lead to inefficiencies in userspace, as it
+      may do things the kernels won't expect. Having to deal with the network
+      through a network server is a headache.
+    <braunr> what kind of problems do you have in mind ?
+    <ltx> Still working on defining the problem. I think that's half the
+      problem.
+    <ltx> (For any problem.)
+    <ltx> Beyond that, it's just some coding ;)
+    <braunr> ok
+    <braunr> sounds interesting :)
+    <braunr> i'd love to see a modern SSI in action
+    <braunr> but that's really a secondary goal for me so glad to see someone
+      making this his primary goal
+    <braunr> doctoral thesis ?
+    <ltx> ... Undergrad who's been hacking away since grade school.
+    <braunr> heh :)
+    <ltx> 18 y/o sophomore at a respected technical college, dealing with
+      boredom :)
+    <braunr> well throroughly thinking about "defining the problem" is an
+      excellent reflex
+    <teythoon> :) stick around, the hurd is fun
+    <braunr> it does help fight boredom a lot indeed ...... )
+    <braunr> :)
+    <cluck> maybe it'd be possible to port the relevant features from plan9 now
+      that there is a gpl'ed version
+    <teythoon> either way, we'd need network-transparent mach messaging
+    <teythoon> which mach messaging could do, but gnumach does not implement
+      this currently
+    <cluck> teythoon: afaiui if there was a proper 9fs2000 hurd server the rest
+      could be hidden behind the curtains 
+    <teythoon> ah, well, that sounds like a 9p network filesystem translator
+    <cluck> teythoon: also iirc plan9 uses libmach for some things so i suppose
+      a port wouldn't be completely impossible
+    <teythoon> given that in plan9 everything is a file, that might be enough
+      to use plan9 services
+    <cluck> teythoon: yes, it'd be the easiest route (at least initially) i
+      believe
+    <teythoon> careful, lots of stuff is named mach-something
+    <cluck> bloody ernest mach and his damned famous-ness-ish
+    <cluck> =)
+    <teythoon> :D
diff --git a/open_issues/arm_port.mdwn b/open_issues/arm_port.mdwn
index ebbad1a4..26e0b770 100644
--- a/open_issues/arm_port.mdwn
+++ b/open_issues/arm_port.mdwn
@@ -1,4 +1,5 @@
-[[!meta copyright="Copyright © 2012, 2013 Free Software Foundation, Inc."]]
+[[!meta copyright="Copyright © 2012, 2013, 2014 Free Software Foundation,
+Inc."]]
 
 [[!meta license="""[[!toggle id="license" text="GFDL 1.2+"]][[!toggleable
 id="license" text="Permission is granted to copy, distribute and/or modify this
@@ -152,29 +153,13 @@ architecture.
     <tschwinge> matty3269: I think that's better than starting on real
       hardware.
     <braunr> tschwinge: you can use -kernel with a multiboot binary now
+
+[[hurd/running/qemu#multiboot]].
+
     <braunr> tschwinge: and even creating iso images is so fast it's not any
       slower
-    <tschwinge> braunr: Yeah, I thought so, but never checked this out --
-      recently I saw in qemu --help's output some »multiboot« thing flashing
-      by.  :-)
-    <braunr> i think it only supports 32-bits executables though
-    <matty3269> braunr: Yeah, I just tried passing gnumach as the -kernel
-      parameter to qemu, but it segged qemu :S
-    <braunr> otherwise i'd be using it for x15
-    <matty3269> qemu: fatal: Trying to execute code outside RAM or ROM at
-      0xc0100000
-    <braunr> how much ram did you give qemu ?
-    <matty3269> I used '-m 512'
-    <braunr> hum, so the -kernel option doesn't correctly implement elf loading
-      or something like that
-    <braunr> anyway, i'm not sure how well building gnumach on a non-hurd
-      system is supported
-    <braunr> so you may want to simply develop inside your VM for the time
-      being, and reboot
-    <matty3269> doing an objdump of it seems fine...
-    <braunr> ?
+
     <braunr> ah, the gnumach executable is a correct elf image
-    <braunr> that's not the point
     <matty3269> Is there particular reason that mach is linked at 0xc0100000?
     <matty3269> or is that where it is expected to be in VM>
     <tschwinge> That's my understanding.
@@ -192,21 +177,6 @@ architecture.
     <braunr> the .text section of linux on x86 actually starts at c1000000
       (above 16 MiB, certainly to preserve as much dma-able memory since modern
       machines now have a lot more)
-    <tschwinge> Surely the GRUB multiboot loader is not that much used/tested?
-    <braunr> unfortunately, no
-    <braunr> matty3269: FYI, my kernel starts at 0xfff00000 :p
-    <matty3269> braunr: hmm, you could be right, I know it's arround there
-      someone
-    <matty3269> somewhere*
-    <matty3269> braunr: that's an interesting address :S
-    <matty3269> braunr: is that the PA address of the kernel or the VA inside a
-      process?
-    <braunr> the VA
-    <matty3269> hmm
-    <braunr> it can't be a PA
-    <braunr> such high addresses are normally device memory
-    <braunr> but don't worry, i have good reasons to have chosen this address
-      :)
     <matty3269> so with gnumach, does the boot-up sequence use PIC until VM is
       active and the kernel mapped to the linking address?
     <braunr> no
@@ -217,37 +187,6 @@ architecture.
     <braunr> and uses offsets when accessing data
     <braunr> (which is why the kernel text is at 3 GiB + 1 MiB, and not 3 GiB)
     <matty3269> hmm,
-    <matty3269> gah, I need to learn x86
-    <braunr> that would certainly help
-    <matty3269> I've just had a look at boothdr.S; I presume that there must be
-      something else that is executed before this to setup VM, switch to 32-bit
-      more etc...?
-    <matty3269> mode*
-    <braunr> have a look at the multiboot specification
-    <braunr> it sets protected mode
-    <braunr> but not paging
-    <braunr> (i mean, the boot loader does, before passing control to the
-      kernel)
-    <matty3269> Ah, I see
-    <tschwinge> matty3269: Multiboot should be documented in the GRUB package.
-    <matty3269> tschwinge: yep, got that, thanks
-    <matty3269> hmm, I can't find any reference to CR0 in gnumach so paging
-      must be enabled elsewhere
-    <matty3269> oh wait, found it
-    <braunr> $ git grep -i '\<cr0\>'
-    <braunr> i386/i386/proc_reg.h, linux/dev/include/asm-i386/system.h
-    <braunr> although i suspect only the first one is relevant to us :)
-    <matty3269> Yeah, that seems to have the setup code for paging :)
-    <matty3269> I'm still confused how it could run that without paging or PIC
-      though
-    <matty3269> I think I need to watch the boot sequence with qemu
-    <braunr> it's a bit tricky
-    <braunr> but actually simple
-    <braunr> 00:44 < braunr> either special sections are linked at physical
-      addresses
-    <braunr> 00:44 < braunr> or it relies on the fact that all executable code
-      uses near jumps
-    <braunr> that's really all there is
     <braunr> but you shouldn't worry about that i suppose, as the protocol
       between the boot loader and an arm kernel will certainly not be the saem
     <braunr> same*
diff --git a/open_issues/clock_gettime.mdwn b/open_issues/clock_gettime.mdwn
index baa21bbb..407a104c 100644
--- a/open_issues/clock_gettime.mdwn
+++ b/open_issues/clock_gettime.mdwn
@@ -338,3 +338,11 @@ In context of [[select]].
       anyway :)
     <desrt> (although it will soon...)
     <braunr> nice
+
+
+## IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2014-03-05
+
+    <desrt> braunr: bit of a warning: i released the glib that depends on
+      working pthread_condattr_setclock(..._MONOTONIC) and pochu said that it
+      will be landing in debian within the next days
+    <braunr> desrt: ok
diff --git a/open_issues/dde.mdwn b/open_issues/dde.mdwn
index 9d8bf509..e7083557 100644
--- a/open_issues/dde.mdwn
+++ b/open_issues/dde.mdwn
@@ -614,6 +614,16 @@ In context of [[libpthread]].
     <braunr> primitives*
 
 
+## IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2014-03-08
+
+    <gg0> what to do if network freezes?
+    <teythoon> gg0: depends on what caused the freeze
+    <teythoon> gg0: you could try to kill the netdde process
+    <gg0> it's just apt-get'ing, download phase
+    <braunr> yess kill netdde
+    <braunr> there are known deadlocks in netdde
+
+
 # IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2012-08-18
 
     <braunr> hm looks like if netdde crashes, the kernel doesn't handle it
diff --git a/open_issues/debugging_gnumach_startup_qemu_gdb.mdwn b/open_issues/debugging_gnumach_startup_qemu_gdb.mdwn
index 7b300ea1..68a04bfb 100644
--- a/open_issues/debugging_gnumach_startup_qemu_gdb.mdwn
+++ b/open_issues/debugging_gnumach_startup_qemu_gdb.mdwn
@@ -131,19 +131,9 @@ License|/fdl]]."]]"""]]
       at least
 
 
-# Multiboot
+# <a name="multiboot">Multiboot</a>
 
-See also discussion about *multiboot* on [[arm_port]].
-
-
-## IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2013-10-09
-
-    <matlea01> I was just wondering - once gnumach is compiled and I have the
-      gnumach elf, is that bootable? I.e. can I use something like
-      "qemu-system-i386 -kernel gnumach"?
-    <kilobug> matlea01: you need something with multiboot support (like grub)
-      to provide the various bootstrap modules to the kernel
-    <matlea01> Ah, I see
+See also [[hurd/running/qemu#multiboot]].
 
 
 ## IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2014-02-24
@@ -173,32 +163,3 @@ See also discussion about *multiboot* on [[arm_port]].
     <nalaginrut> you may use gdb for that
     <nalaginrut> for bochs, you don't have to use external debugger
     <congzhang> thanks for explain
-    <congzhang> does anyone succeed boot hurd with qemu multiboot boot
-      function?
-    <congzhang> with -kernel and -initrd command line parameter
-    <nalaginrut> I boot it with grub, in qemu, it's fine. Then I moved to
-      physical machine
-    <congzhang> boot with grub work for me too
-    <congzhang> I want to know whether it is possible to boot from qemu
-      directly
-    <congzhang> qemu can directly load kernel and hurd module for linux
-    <congzhang> nalaginrut: can you help to test whether hurd-console service
-      start will cause hurd black death?
-    <nalaginrut> I know qemu can boot Linux without MBR, but I don't know if
-      it's true for Hurd too
-    <nalaginrut> congzhang:  I'm busy for other works now ;-)
-    <congzhang> ok, thks:)
-    <youpi> qemu's multiboot options don't seem to allow providing
-      ext2fs.static and ld.so, so I don't think it's possible
-    <congzhang> I try to do this, because hurd hurd-console cause system to
-      death very high frequency
-    <youpi> (because qemu doesn't implement all of multiboot)
-    <congzhang> qemu help show that's possible, -initrd support multi module
-      and parameter
-    <congzhang> en, I will check with them later
-    <youpi> how do you pass parameters to modules?
-    <youpi> ah, right, it's after the file name
-    <youpi> well, then simply try to pass the kernel, and the two modules
-    <youpi> with the same option as in the grub config templates
-    <youpi> it's fortunate that neither ext2fs nor exec need a comma on their
-      command line...
diff --git a/open_issues/file_locking.mdwn b/open_issues/file_locking.mdwn
index 563307a4..7dfbdb94 100644
--- a/open_issues/file_locking.mdwn
+++ b/open_issues/file_locking.mdwn
@@ -1,4 +1,5 @@
-[[!meta copyright="Copyright © 2010, 2011 Free Software Foundation, Inc."]]
+[[!meta copyright="Copyright © 2010, 2011, 2014 Free Software Foundation,
+Inc."]]
 
 [[!meta license="""[[!toggle id="license" text="GFDL 1.2+"]][[!toggleable
 id="license" text="Permission is granted to copy, distribute and/or modify this
@@ -10,7 +11,25 @@ License|/fdl]]."]]"""]]
 
 [[!tag open_issue_hurd open_issue_glibc]]
 
-IRC, #hurd, 2010-12-31.
+[[!toc]]
+
+
+# Google Summer of Code Project Idea
+
+[[community/gsoc/project_ideas/File_Locking]].
+
+
+# visudo
+
+[[visudo]].
+
+
+# Existing Work
+
+[[!GNU_Savannah_patch 332]].
+
+
+# IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2010-12-31
 
     <pinotree> youpi: i found the issue with python-apt
     <pinotree> s/with/of/
@@ -72,3 +91,8 @@ IRC, #hurd, 2010-12-31.
     <youpi> ah, no, on Linux flock is its own system call
     <youpi> (which is independant from lockf from the locking point of view,
       iirc)
+
+
+# 2014-03-11
+
+[[!message-id "1394523876.28244.11.camel@workhorse-peter-baumgarten-com"]].
diff --git a/open_issues/glibc.mdwn b/open_issues/glibc.mdwn
index 4dad229f..33041e71 100644
--- a/open_issues/glibc.mdwn
+++ b/open_issues/glibc.mdwn
@@ -210,17 +210,15 @@ Last reviewed up to the [[Git mirror's 64a17f1adde4715bb6607f64decd73b2df9e6852
         make[1]: Leaving directory `/media/boole-data/thomas/tmp/gnu-0/src/glibc'
         make: *** [all] Error 2
 
-  * <a id=missing>Missing interfaces, amongst many more.</a>
+  * <a id=missing>Missing Interfaces</a>
 
-    IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2014-02-25:
+    We have posted a [[Google Summer of Code project proposal|community/gsoc]]:
 
-        <tschwinge> youpi et al.: Is it a useful GSoC task to have the student
-          implement interfaces in glibc that we are currently missing?
-        <braunr> tschwinge: definitely
-        <braunr> posix_timers would be great
-        <youpi> tschwinge: probably
+    [[!inline pages="community/gsoc/project_ideas/testsuites" show=0 feeds=no
+    actions=yes]]
 
-    Many more are missing, some of which have been announced in `NEWS`, others
+    Many are missing for GNU Hurd, some of which have been announced in
+    [`NEWS`](https://sourceware.org/git/?p=glibc.git;a=blob;f=NEWS), others
     typically haven't (like new flags to existing functions).  Typically,
     porters will notice missing functionaly.  But in case you're looking for
     something to work on, here's a bit of a commented list, otherwise go
@@ -1855,6 +1853,42 @@ Last reviewed up to the [[Git mirror's 64a17f1adde4715bb6607f64decd73b2df9e6852
             <braunr> teythoon: i think it should be in glibc
             <braunr> maybe in mach/
 
+      * [[POSIX file record locking|file_locking]]
+
+      * <a name="execve_relative_paths">`execve` with relative paths</a>
+
+        [[!GNU_Savannah_bug 28934]], [[user/pochu]], [[!message-id
+        "4BFA500A.7030502@gmail.com"]].
+
+        IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2014-03-05:
+
+            <teythoon> youpi: what about the exec_filename patch series? [...]
+            <youpi> Roland was disagreeing with it
+
+      * <a name="mount">`mount`/`umount`</a>
+
+        IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2014-03-01:
+
+            <gnu_srs1> Hi, how to handle packages depending on mount.h, et al?
+              On Hurd mount/umount is supplied by hurd is not in libc?
+            <azeem> gnu_srs1: mount or mount.h?
+            <gnu_srs1> mount.h et al
+            <gnu_srs1> man 2 mount
+            <azeem> what is the question then?
+            <gnu_srs1> some packages expect the mount 2 functionality
+              available, not by the external command mount/umonut
+            <gnu_srs1> umount*
+            <gnu_srs1> azeem: one example is fuse
+            <teythoon> gnu_srs1: that is correct
+            <teythoon> gnu_srs1: i put a small hacks entry in the list about
+              moving the mount/umount functionality from our utilities to the
+              libc
+
+      * <a name="posix_timers">POSIX Timers</a>
+
+        `timer_create`, `timer_delete`, [[`clock_gettime`|clock_gettime]], and
+        so on.
+
     For specific packages:
 
       * <a id=octave>[[octave]]</a>
diff --git a/open_issues/glibc/debian/experimental.mdwn b/open_issues/glibc/debian/experimental.mdwn
index 273f02fd..4ae9807b 100644
--- a/open_issues/glibc/debian/experimental.mdwn
+++ b/open_issues/glibc/debian/experimental.mdwn
@@ -225,6 +225,15 @@ Now in unstable.
     <braunr> ok that mmap fix looks fine, i'll add comments and commit it soon
 
 
+## IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2014-03-03
+
+    <youpi> braunr: did you test whether
+      https://sourceware.org/git/?p=glibc.git;a=commitdiff;h=17db6e8d6b12f55e312fcab46faf5d332c806fb6
+      does indeed fix locale generation?
+    <braunr> youpi: it doesn't, which is why i applied
+      http://git.sceen.net/hurd/glibc.git/commitdiff/da2d6e677ade278bf34afaa35c6ed4ff2489e7d8?hp=9a079e270a9bec7e1fe28aeda63e07c1bb808d44
+
+
 # IRC, OFTC, #debian-hurd, 2013-06-20
 
     <youpi> damn
diff --git a/open_issues/multithreading.mdwn b/open_issues/multithreading.mdwn
index d5c0272c..a66202c8 100644
--- a/open_issues/multithreading.mdwn
+++ b/open_issues/multithreading.mdwn
@@ -561,6 +561,23 @@ Tom Van Cutsem, 2009.
     <teythoon> ^^
 
 
+### IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2014-03-02
+
+    <youpi> braunr: what is the status of the thread storm issue? do you have
+      pending code changes for this?
+    <youpi> I was wondering whether to make ext2fs use adaptative locks,
+      i.e. spin a bit and then block
+    <youpi> I don't remember whether anybody already did something like that
+    <braunr> youpi: no i don't
+    <braunr> youpi: i attempted switch from spin locks to mutexes once but it
+      doesn't solve the problem
+    <braunr> switching*
+    <gg0> found another storm maker:
+    <gg0> $ dpkg-reconfigure gnome-accessibility-themes
+    <gg0> aka update-icon-caches /usr/share/icons/HighContrast
+    <youpi> braunr: ok
+
+
 ## Alternative approaches:
 
   * <http://www.concurrencykit.org/>
diff --git a/open_issues/nightly_builds_deb_packages.mdwn b/open_issues/nightly_builds_deb_packages.mdwn
index da7bdc7d..cef16734 100644
--- a/open_issues/nightly_builds_deb_packages.mdwn
+++ b/open_issues/nightly_builds_deb_packages.mdwn
@@ -67,33 +67,23 @@ See also [[nightly_builds]].
     <teythoon> there has been talk here the other day about using qemus
       multiboot capabilities to directly boot the hurd
 
-[[debugging_gnumach_startup_qemu_gdb]], *Multiboot*
-
-    <teythoon> i always wanted to try that out
-    <pere> the jenkins rules to test the install uses --kernel, --initrd and
-      --append in qemu to specify the preseed file.  without a similar method
-      to boot hurd, it will be hard to automate the test.  rewriting the iso
-      might be an option, but not a very nice one.
-    <teythoon> i believe that it is possible to use those options to boot a
-      hurd
-    <teythoon> i'll report back to you
+[[hurd/running/qemu#multiboot]].
+
+For d-i purposes, you'll additionally need:
+
+    $ wget http://people.debian.org/~sthibault/hurd-i386/installer/cdimage/current/initrd.gz
+
+..., and to the `--initrd` option prepend `'initrd.gz $(ramdisk-create)',`
+before the `ext2fs.static`, and refer the latter to `gunzip:device:rd0` instead
+of `device:hd0s1`.
+
     <pere> I tried adding an url= option to grub when booting the installer,
       but it seem to be ignored.
-    <pere> I suspect it did not make it to /proc/cmdline, but am not sure.
-    <teythoon> um
-    <teythoon> it should
-    <pere> could be.  I am unable to get a shell in the installer, so I do not
-      know.
-    <teythoon> root@pluto ~ # cat /proc/cmdline
-    <teythoon> root=device:hd0s1
-    <teythoon> oh ? select expert install, then spawn a shell or something
     <pere> perhaps the preseed udeb is missing, or the network support was
       enabled after preseed looked for the file?
     <teythoon> uh, i don't know about that stuff, youpi creates the d-i images
     <pere> ok.  seem to me that the d-i images do not support preseeding at the
       moment.
-    <teythoon> pere: when i try to use qemus multiboot support to boot the
-      hurd, qemu crashes :/
     <teythoon> youpi: ^ did you succeed? if so, can you share how?
     <pere> teythoon: nope, I concluded it didn't work, and left it to other to
       fix. :)
@@ -108,3 +98,650 @@ See also [[nightly_builds]].
     <pere> I would like to see something like <URL:
       http://jenkins.debian.net/view/g-i-installation/job/g-i-installation_debian_sid_daily_lxde/lastBuild/
       > for hurd.
+
+
+## IRC, OFTC, #debian-hurd, 2014-02-26
+
+    * gg0 setting up jenkins, almost time to give up
+    <pere> gg0: why do you set up jenkins?
+    <gg0> because i want to fail at doing all things, not just something ;)
+    <gg0> oops seems my setup just sent emails to jenkins+debian-qa
+      holger@layer-acht.org :/
+    <pere> #debian-qa will understand. :)
+
+
+## IRC, OFTC, #debian-hurd, 2014-02-28
+
+    <pere> gg0: are you able to feed the installer one of the preseed files at
+      <URL: http://jenkins.debian.net/d-i-preseed-cfgs/ >?
+    <gg0> though jenking translates double quotes, need to escape the world
+    <pere> debian_sid_daily_lxde_preseed.cfg seem like a good candiate. :)
+    <gg0> pere: i'm working on that, stuck at working around that mandatory
+      double quote
+    <gg0> *initrd double quote
+    <gg0> ok got a g-i-installation_debian_sid_daily_hurd_lxde able to boot
+    <gg0> let's provide a preseed
+    <gg0> shouldn't there be some info/debug consoles from tty 2 to 4?
+    <youpi> there should be
+    <gg0> maybe i can't send alt+NUM from vlc
+    <youpi> ah, yes
+    <youpi> you need to use the menu for that
+    <youpi> press f8
+    <gg0> great
+    <gg0> (found out C+A+{1,2,3} give interesting monitor,serial,parallel
+      consoles btw)
+    <gg0> not much options on menu
+    <gg0> just clipboard management, quit, full screen, send ctrl-alt-del, send
+      F8
+    * gg0 takes "great" back
+    <gg0> i guess it depends on vnc implementation
+    <gg0> don't ask me how i found out one can switch console with
+      ... left/right arrow keys
+    <youpi> without alt pressed?
+    <gg0> without alt pressed
+    <youpi> I've already seen that with qemu, when focusing into/out from the
+      qemu window by using alt
+    <youpi> somehow the alt state gets stuck
+    <gg0> so you mean if i close viewer then reattach it, it doesn't happen
+      anymore? let's see
+    <gg0> you're right
+    <gg0> though yes alt+left/right switches consoles
+    <youpi> the last is expected :)
+    <gg0> it says kbd-udeb doesn't exist so it falls back to
+      hurd-debian-ports-udeb
+    <youpi> that's not a problem
+    <gg0> no partman-auto?
+    <youpi> it should be working
+    <gg0> i meant if it was installed but yes it gets it along with others
+
+
+## IRC, OFTC, #debian-hurd, 2014-03-01
+
+    <gg0> partman-auto would need to be patched to be able to discover
+      available disks
+    <gg0> worked around by forcing /dev/hd1, jenkins creates disk with index=1
+    <gg0> stuck at installation-report installed. seems it can't manage to
+      umount(then remount) /cdrom gracefully
+    <gg0> or better it gets stuck at apt-cdrom ident
+    <gg0> something like https://bugs.debian.org/598457
+
+
+## IRC, OFTC, #debian-hurd, 2014-03-02
+
+    <gg0> youpi: any chance to have monthly/weekly (daily would be too much i
+      guess) isos/images? can i help somehow?
+    <youpi> I am wondering why having that
+    <youpi> since we have up-to-date mirrors
+    <gg0> i'd say to install with latest installer/gnumach/hurd/eglibc 
+    <youpi> so that means also rebuilding the d-i image
+    <gg0> and in general to not have to manually produce them
+    <pere> youpi: the point is to automatically test the current images using
+      jenkins.debian.net, I believe.  for that to work, current images need to
+      exist. :)
+    <gg0> not only. i think saving youpi's time is also important
+    <youpi> gg0: it doesn't really take me much time to generate images
+    <youpi> it's about a few command lines to start, and then work on something
+      else :)
+    <gg0> well though it still requires manual intervention which is not
+      scheduled and also error prone btw
+    <youpi> gg0: I guess the most important help you could provide would be to
+      actually track when the autobuild breaks :)
+    <gg0> what pros keeping it manual? i don't think disk space saving
+    <youpi> it's not really a question of manual, but the frequency
+    <youpi> I prefer to test manually before uploading something on my
+      somehow-official directory on people, anyway
+    <youpi> but that doesn't mean we can't have weekly builds somewhere else
+      indeed
+    <youpi> it's just that for tests it's good to have several images backlog,
+      but then it takes disk
+    <gg0> well we could keeping "official" ones + say 6 monthly and say 4
+      weekly
+    * gg0 randomizes retention
+    <gg0> -ing
+    <teythoon> gg0: check out my hurdtest program
+    <teythoon> it updates qemu images automatically, and runs a test suite,
+      creates snapshots
+    <gg0> youpi: you'd just take actually care of official ones
+    <teythoon> and it can zero-fill the disk images to compact them for
+      publication
+    <youpi> gg0: and have a cron for the others
+    <youpi> on mirror.ftp-master
+    <gg0> nice, we already have a disk image generator then
+    <teythoon> i shall clean it up and merge stuff that i have changed locally
+    <teythoon> i covered it in my early blog posts
+    <teythoon> i use it extensively to test the packages from hurd-ci
+    <gg0> great. so usually at this point /me can't do anything so good work!
+      lol
+    <youpi> crontabs are in place, scheduled on monday mornings
+    <youpi> I have already completed a run, can be seen in weekly-0
+    <gg0> great!
+    <gg0> assuming it will work forever without maintenance, how many minutes
+      you'll save per month? :)
+    <youpi> I don't think that'll save me time per month
+    <youpi> since it's just an additional thing
+    <gg0> youpi: so weekly-0 will always be the latest weekly (same about
+      monthly) ?
+    <youpi> yes
+    <gg0> how about adding -YYYYMMDD after -1 CD/DVD/NETINST number?
+    <youpi> that'd mean more scripting
+    <gg0> just to distinguish them
+    <youpi> we already have timestamps from the server
+    <gg0> unfortunately i can't script myself, i can suggest though :)
+    <gg0> or scripts are available somewhere?
+    <gg0> so current/ should be a link to weekly-0?
+    <youpi> on mirror.ftp-master.debian.org, but I guess you don't have access
+      to it
+    <youpi> no
+    <youpi> definitely no
+    <youpi> the point of current/ is to have something tested
+    <gg0> ok
+    <youpi> while weekly/monthly are most probably to get broken
+    <youpi> so let's not point people at that
+    <gg0> same story about diskimage? how do you generate them?
+    <gg0> how about teythoon's way?
+    <youpi> I do it by hand at the moment, but scripts would be welcome indeed
+    <youpi> http://people.debian.org/~sthibault/hurd-i386/debian-hurd.img.txt
+    <gg0> ok now stuck at grub install
+
+
+## IRC, OFTC, #debian-hurd, 2014-03-03
+
+    <gg0> i probably should force /dev/hd0 as i did for /dev/hd0s1 as root
+      device
+    <gg0> if it's possible
+    <youpi> what do you mean by forcing /dev/hd0s1 as root device ?
+    <youpi> you shouldn't have to do that
+    <youpi> my fear is that these additional images will mostly just bring
+      additionnal reports
+    <gg0> i had to specify it in preseed
+    <youpi> which won't really decrease the amount of work
+    <gg0> as partman-auto/disk
+    <gg0> it can recognize available disks
+    <gg0> that's also because it can't list root partitions on rescue mode
+    <youpi> well, all I can say without having (again) to spend time on it, is
+      that you're not supposed to have to do that
+    <youpi> why are you using rescue mode?
+    <youpi> if it can't list root partitions, then of course partman can't work
+    <gg0> well, rescue mode should work
+    <youpi> if you delve into non-tested parts of d-i, you'll surely encounter
+      bugs
+    <youpi> well, less "should" than plain "d-i"
+    <youpi> in that I've never really tested it
+    <youpi> so don't be surprised that some bugs remain
+    <gg0> no problem
+    <youpi> but again, we don't really need  more bug reports
+    <youpi> but rather bug fixing
+    <youpi> we already have enough to fix, no need to delve into advanced
+      things
+    <gg0> sure, i'm just trying to make it work with all its limitations
+    <gg0> it autopartition the disk well, it can't just make one choose among
+      disks because it can't probe and list them
+    <youpi> then fix the probe & list
+    <gg0> i'd like doing it, i'm better at working around for now though :)
+    <gg0> one blocker is mount/umount stuff
+
+[[glibc#mount]].
+
+    <youpi> well, you'll have to get into fixing bugs for real someday
+    <youpi> otherwise this is just adding to TODO lists
+    <youpi> what mount/umount stuff?
+    <gg0> (took a quick look at partconf)
+    <gg0> non-existent mount.h for instance
+    <gg0> do we have replacements?
+    <youpi> not that I know of
+    <gg0> 21:53 < teythoon> gnu_srs1: i put a small hacks entry in the list
+      about moving the mount/umount functionality from our utilities to the
+      libc
+    <youpi> ok
+    <gg0> another thing i'd really like to see would be a physical shutdown,
+      halt-hurd which actually poweroffs the system
+    <gg0> how to switch to sysvinit by default? next sysvinit upload?
+    <youpi> physical shutdown means implementing APM or ACPI
+    <gg0> have to teach jenkins it can shut it down :/
+    <youpi> I'm extremely far from having the will for this
+    <youpi> switching to sysvinit by default is a matter of saying that we want
+      to do it
+    <youpi> I already asked for this on the list without answer IIRC 
+    <gg0> i can't find anything
+    <youpi> anyway, just propose on the list
+    <gg0> d-i grub-installer/bootdev string /dev/hd0 - here it is
+    <gg0> next run should not need any interaction, though it needs 20 mins to
+      understand it has to destroy it and run won't be successful :/
+    <gg0> due to missing acpi/apm
+    <gg0> first graphical automated install http://postimg.org/image/vgagj06q7/
+    <gg0> it seems 720x400
+    <gg0> though jenkins passes video=vesa:ywrap,mtrr vga=788
+    <gg0> by reconnecting it switched to 800x600
+      http://postimg.org/image/h32qjykrx/
+    <gg0> but seems stuck now and i can't even switch from graphical to
+      consoles
+    <gg0> unusually stuck at scanning cdrom
+    <gg0> i'll check text install to see if it gets stuck there too
+    <gg0> text install switches from 720x400 to 640x400
+    <gg0> i confirm it gets stuck on scanning cdrom, i guess because of this
+      one https://bugs.debian.org/728153 which already broke load-install-cd i
+      already had to workaround
+    <pere> gg0: are you in contact with h01ger to update jenkins.debian.net
+      with your cool installation code?
+    <gg0> pere: still trying to have something working
+    <gg0> plus with new weekly cd, apt-cdrom bug makes install getting stuck at
+      first Scanning cdrom:
+    <gg0> 03:44 < gg0> i confirm it gets stuck on scanning cdrom, i guess
+      because of this one https://bugs.debian.org/728153 which already broke
+      load-install-cd i already had to workaround
+    <youpi> do we really need the CD-1 image in weekly builds?
+    <gg0> just netinst?
+    <youpi> yes
+    <gg0> well, i don't know debian installer well. what's the difference
+      between CD and NETINST besides that CD has more packages user doesn't
+      need to download?
+    <gg0> has CD anything not in NETINST which is worth to continously test?
+      (talking about jenkins)
+    <youpi> that's only it, yes
+    <gg0> btw new ACPI on hurd consists of serial console to file + looping
+      grep "In tight loop: hit ctl-alt-del to reboot" && kill qemu
+    <gg0> anything better?
+    <gg0> filed http://bugs.debian.org/740673
+    <gg0> without a patch just to express my great laziness :p
+    <youpi> well, I'm afraid nobody in the debian-boot team will attempt
+      anything at this
+    <youpi> is it reproducible on linux?
+    <gg0> nope
+    <gg0> my guess is that's due to udev, need a deeper check btw
+    <gg0> i mean non-udev cases like hurd maybe are not handled well
+    <youpi> maybe try on kfreebsd then?
+    <gg0> just guessing
+    * gg0 trying on kfreebsd
+
+
+## IRC, OFTC, #debian-hurd, 2014-03-04
+
+    <gg0> hurd install started getting stuck running os-prober, final grub
+      install phase
+    <gg0> youpi: yes i confirm it affects kfreebsd too
+    <youpi> then please say so in the bug
+    <youpi> otherwise most probably but me in the debian-boot team will care
+    <youpi> +nobody
+    <gg0> that might get more attention from d-boot team?
+    <gg0> ok
+    <youpi> also Cc debian-bsd@
+    <youpi> they will care
+    <youpi> and tell about the hint as being the non-udev case
+    <youpi> too much information or ideas is never a bad thing :)
+    <gg0> done
+    <gg0> (now i know notfound does remove found versions instead of adding
+      notfound versions)
+    <gg0> crazy things. to unblock os-prober i had to settrans -fg
+      /target/media/./cdrom0
+    <gg0> it was mounting /dev/hd0s1 ...
+    <gg0> i suspect apt-cdrom is to blame again
+    <gg0> ok now jenkins just managed to start the installed system
+    <gg0> and it's configured to make vncdo testing it
+    <gg0> i'd need a graphical-working cd with old-apt to continue
+    <gg0> let's try to install old apt on weekly-0
+    <gg0> "cdrom drive contains a cd which cannot be used for installation"
+    <gg0> i think a sort of non-authenticated anymore
+    <gg0> ehm.. http://paste.debian.net/plain/85224/
+    <pere> gg0: nice. :)
+    <gg0> with apt 0.9.15.1 which should be good
+    <gg0> pere: it did mount /dev/hd0s1 under /media/cdrom0
+    <gg0> 0.9.15.5, correctly i think, asks to insert it cdrom. but finally
+      both mount /dev/hd0s1 instead of /dev/hd2
+    <gg0> -it
+    <gg0> cause they both can't detect where cdrom is i guess
+
+
+## IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2014-03-04
+
+    <gg0> we could talk about apt-cdrom https://bugs.debian.org/740673
+    <gg0> how should system recognize cdrom device?
+    <gg0> there's no /dev/cdrom link to actual cdrom device
+    <gg0>  /dev/cd[01] are scsi devices if i'm not wrong
+
+
+## IRC, OFTC, #debian-hurd, 2014-03-05
+
+    <gg0> installer gets stuck running os-prober, seems because
+      /target/proc/mounts gets unreadable, sometimes Resource lost sometimes it
+      gets stuck reading it
+
+[[hurd/translator/mtab/discussion#chroot]].
+
+    <gg0> youpi: could you publish script to rebuild CDs you scheduled? with
+      last official CD (20140212) mtab on /target dies and that seems getting
+      os-prober stuck. last (and only) weekly has recent apt-cdrom so it gets
+      stuck wrongly asking to change cdrom
+    <youpi> see the readme file
+    <youpi> err, you say it's the 0212 build which fails?
+    <youpi> I had tested that before uploading
+    <youpi> so the issue comes form the installed packages, not from the CD
+      udebs
+    <youpi> did you test with no network mirror?
+    <gg0> no i didn't. should it find all packages it needs from cd?
+    <youpi> sure, that's what netinst and dvd-1 are, as opposed to netboot
+    <gg0> lxde desktop probably not
+    <youpi> indeed
+    <youpi> though with the dvd in principle it should
+    <youpi> (if all deps were avaijlable at image build time)
+    <youpi> gg0: btw if you haven't noticed, there's a daily too
+    <gg0> youpi: till apt-cdrom is not fixed, they all will be broken, stuck at
+      "Scanning cdrom"
+    <youpi> gg0: did you try to bisect which git change produces the apt-cdrom
+      bug?
+    <gg0> youpi: all in bug in question
+    <gg0> youpi: https://bugs.debian.org/740673
+    <youpi> is there the precise git commit id in the bug log?
+    <gg0>
+      http://anonscm.debian.org/gitweb/?p=apt/apt.git;a=commitdiff;h=62dcbf84c4aee8cb01e40c594d4c7f3a23b64836
+    <youpi> well, don't tell that to just me, but the bug report...
+    <gg0> bug report says "See <bug>" where bug is
+      https://bugs.debian.org/728153
+    <youpi> gg0: bug report doesn't say it was *tested* that it is that changes
+      which broke things
+    <gg0> i don't think we could get it reverted just because it breaks hurd
+      (+kfreebsd to check) debian installer
+    <youpi> of course, but that's at least where developers can have a look at
+    <gg0> well ok i could have been more clear
+    <youpi> it's *WAY* better than having no idea where to have a look at
+    <youpi> gg0: btw, that's why the README file advises not to use a network
+      mirror, to avoid such kind of issues
+    <youpi> you can't expect sid not to be not-broken :)
+    <gg0> one gets Resource lost even when install is just started, no packages
+      from any mirror
+    <gg0> https://bugs.debian.org/740673#19
+
+    * gg0 installing without mirrors, without desktop, without lxde
+    <gg0> same problem
+    <gg0> so problem has nothing to do with installing from mirrors
+    <youpi> what's odd is that I don't get this issue at all with the 20140212
+      upload at least
+    <youpi> kvm -cdrom debian-7.0-hurd-i386-NETINST-1.iso -drive
+      file=blip,cache=unsafe -m 1G
+    <youpi> no more, no less
+    <gg0> it must depend on preseed and/or kernel append options
+    <youpi> possibly
+    <gg0> oh wait here qemu multiboot
+    <youpi> that shouldn't have any impact
+    <gg0> 5€ on qemu multiboot as the culprit
+    <gg0> you should also see it sometimes double-mounts /dev/hd0s1 under
+      /target and /target/./media/cdrom(!)
+    <gg0> but that's due to new apt it in-targets (= installs under /target)
+
+    <gg0> any luck reproducing mtab issue?
+    <youpi> still not
+
+[[hurd/translator/mtab/discussion#chroot]].
+
+
+## IRC, OFTC, #debian-hurd, 2014-03-06
+
+    <youpi>  http://paste.debian.net/85535/
+    <youpi> no issue
+    <youpi> (no network mirror)
+    <gg0> full install till grub-installer?
+    <youpi> yes
+    <youpi> and reboot
+    <gg0> -append 'auto=true mirror/suite=sid console=com0 priority=critical
+      locale=en_US keymap=us
+      url=http://10.0.2.1//d-i-preseed-cfgs/debian_sid_daily_hurd_lxde_preseed.cfg
+      video=vesa:ywrap,mtrr vga=788 -- quiet'
+    <gg0> i should provide preseed too
+    <youpi> well, of course
+    <youpi> always provide as much information as possible
+    <youpi> so there's also your preseed file
+    <gg0> not much different from
+      http://jenkins.debian.net/d-i-preseed-cfgs/debian_sid_daily_lxde_preseed.cfg
+    <gg0> but you need to force a couple of things + ugly workaround for broken
+      apt-cdrom ident
+    <youpi> well, I didn't even know that jenkins had that pressed file
+    <youpi> well, here apt-cdrom is not needed
+    <youpi> +hacks
+    <youpi> since that's the old image we're checking
+    <gg0> well ok, given you take everything from cd only, yes
+    <gg0> here no mirror, no desktop, no lxde
+      http://paste.debian.net/plain/85538/
+    <gg0> i'm trying this one too
+    <gg0> main difference seems to be i usually use CD-1, not NETINST
+    <gg0> had to add -net nic,vlan=0 -net
+      user,vlan=0,host=10.0.2.1,dhcpstart=10.0.2.2,dns=10.0.2.254
+    <gg0> here target mtab is already crashed
+    <gg0> because some package already tried to read /target/proc/mounts
+    <gg0> youpi: reproduced there?
+    <gg0> .o(well, maybe he's been sleeping for ~50 mins)
+    <youpi> nope, I'm working on upgrading servers
+    <youpi> I'm sorry, but your testcase is not really easy to reproduce :)
+    <gg0> do you have apache on your host? just put preseed in the root, vm
+      will take it
+    <gg0> full command line is what you pasted + -net nic,vlan=0 -net
+      user,vlan=0,host=10.0.2.1,dhcpstart=10.0.2.2,dns=10.0.2.254
+    <gg0> what else? when it starts debstrapping, open a console and check
+      procfs and mtab processes
+    <gg0> err, what you paster + -append i pasted + -net nic,vlan=0 -net
+      user,vlan=0,host=10.0.2.1,dhcpstart=10.0.2.2,dns=10.0.2.254
+    <gg0> *pasted
+    <gg0> which is http://paste.debian.net/plain/85554/
+    <gg0> surely keyboard layout doesn't help, here at least
+    * gg0 tries to reproduce without preseed
+    <gg0> i can't reproduce it
+    <gg0> it doesn't crash
+    * gg0 enabling all options but preseed
+    <gg0> need to wait 31% of Installing base system to have the second procfs
+    <gg0> ok got Resource lost even without preseed
+    <gg0> youpi: you can reproduce it by adding -append console=com0 to what
+      you pasted. that breaks grub-installer, it gets stuck at 66%, while runs
+      os-prober
+    <youpi> ah
+    <gg0> how can that affect /target/proc/mounts?
+    <youpi> no idea
+    <gg0> couldn't daily be here? http://d-i.debian.org/daily-images/
+    <youpi> if I knew how to push files there, sure
+    <gg0> asking on #debian-boot would be a starting point i guess
+    <youpi> probably
+    <gg0> me asking on behalf of youpi would not a good one i think, given
+      whatever will the answer i can't do anything
+    <gg0> +be
+    <youpi> you can still trasmit me
+    <youpi> never understimate the little time you can save other people by
+      doing some bits of work
+    <gg0> well, i would not even have to repaste lines here given you joined
+      there too
+    <gg0> never understimate what "help with laziness" means :)
+    <youpi> not necessarily repasting, but at least highlighting me
+    <youpi> so I know where to read in the #d-b logs
+    <gg0> there are no isos there, i'm missing something
+    <youpi> there are no daily isos
+    <youpi> only weekly isos
+    <gg0> so seems i have to reask initial question with this url
+      http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/weekly-builds/
+    <gg0> oh wait they are from testing, that's why no hurd ones
+    <gg0> i guess they could be here though
+      http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/daily-builds/sid_d-i/current/
+    * gg0 asking on #debian-cd
+    * gg0 would ignore non-DD gg0 asking whatever
+    <youpi> people don't really ask themselves who is a DD and who is not
+    <youpi> as long as you provide information in your question, it'll get
+      answered
+    <gg0> teythoon: interested in reproducing mtab-dying-under-chroot?
+    <gg0> oh just realized it's not only under a chroot, chroot is on another
+      disk. might that make the difference?
+    <gg0> i didn't try to reproduce it by creating a chroot on a different
+      disk, which is what installer does
+    * gg0 wonders if it would have been better filing a bug against
+        cdimage.debian.org
+    <gg0> if no one fixes console=com0 thing, i have to think about a new acpi
+    <gg0> ok managed to workaround apt bug in installer, i can graphically
+      install last weekly
+    <gg0> no console=com0 means no vm shutdown though
+    <pere> gg0: wow.  impressed!
+    <gg0> patching CI to make CI workaround bugs CI spots is not so good
+    <gg0> any idea about another shutdown trick without console=com0 till
+      teythoon or youpi fix it?
+    <pere> nope
+    <gg0> current one: vm writes serial console to file and host loops grepping
+      "In tight loop: hit ctl-alt-del to reboot"
+    <gg0> -watchdog might be an alternative
+    <gg0> if there are watchdog agents that can run on hurd
+    <gg0> "watchdog" for instance doesn't build on hurd
+    <pere> it need kernel support
+    * gg0 testing -add-fd
+
+
+## IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2014-03-07
+
+    <gg0> teythoon: just mounted an additional fs, it's mounted but not present
+      in proc/mounts
+    <braunr> gg0: how did you mount it ?
+    <gg0> i was under /root, sid-chroot is the mountpoint. i did mount /dev/hd3
+      sid-chroot (relative path)
+    <braunr> does fsysopts confirm a new translator is running on sid-chroot ?
+    <gg0> i shut down vm, working on another one by mounting the same disk
+      which hosts a debchroot
+    <gg0> i'm trying to reproduce the mtab-dying-on-chroot issue i get with
+      debian installer
+    <gg0> at the end, os-prober gets stuck by reading /target/proc/mounts
+      (target is the installed system)
+    <gg0> to be precise it gets stuck at second access. at first it gives
+      Resource lost
+    <gg0> didn't manage to reproduce so far
+    <gg0> environment is pretty the same: booting with qemu multiboot
+      http://darnassus.sceen.net/~hurd-web/hurd/running/qemu/#multiboot
+    <gg0> so root on initrd + chroot on real disk 
+    <gg0> what's weird is that issue vanishes by removing console=com0 from
+      -append options
+
+
+### IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2014-03-08
+
+    <gg0> os-prober doesn't get stuck anymore and grub can install
+    <gg0> my guess is that without console=com0 /target/proc/mounts is just
+      accessed once
+
+
+## IRC, OFTC, #debian-hurd, 2014-03-08
+
+    <gg0> youpi: from #debian-cd http://paste.debian.net/plainh/559f669b
+    <gg0> any quick way to recreate initrd?
+    <teythoon> gg0: i'm working on that
+    <gg0> teythoon: that what?
+    <teythoon> gg0: there is genext2fs, i have some patches that allows one to
+      create nodes with passive translator records
+    <gg0> recreating initrd?
+    <teythoon> yes
+    <teythoon> in the meantime, you can mount the existing initrd and modify it
+    <gg0> well i'm following this one to rebuild whole cd then take an updated
+      initrd to test with your repo
+    <gg0> http://people.debian.org/~sthibault/hurd-i386/installer/README-d-i
+    <gg0> probably too much work to get that
+    <gg0> copying current /hurd to new initrd would be enough?
+    <youpi> just copy the precise translator you need
+    <youpi> also, no need to rebuild the whole cd just to replace the initrd
+    <youpi> simply copy the content of an existing is
+    <youpi> iso
+    <youpi> replace the initrd.gz there
+    <youpi> and then use grub-mkrescue to rebuild the ios
+    <youpi> development would be horrible if you had to rebuild everything from
+      zero everytime
+    <youpi> first thing to do when developping is first take the time to find
+      ways to work efficiently
+    <youpi> unfortunately I had to apply some patches
+    <youpi> first in d-i because isc-dhcp doens't work -> use the debian-ports
+      version
+    <youpi> then in d-i to automatically enable the debian-ports mirror
+    <youpi> and last in the debian-cd to include debian-ports-archive-keyring
+
+    <gg0> anything missing here?
+      http://people.debian.org/~sthibault/hurd-i386/installer/README-d-i
+    <gg0> mini.iso doesn't like any mirror
+    <gg0> "mirror does not support the specified release"
+    <gg0> something wrong/missing in my rebuilt
+    <gg0> youpi: anything wrong in http://paste.debian.net/plain/86258 ?
+    <gg0> i have/had problems with name resolution
+    <youpi> gg0: the patch makes sense for -bsd too, Cc them too
+    <gg0> i was wondering how many hunks in your patches are upstreamable
+    <youpi> normally it's zero
+    <gg0>
+      http://people.debian.org/~sthibault/hurd-i386/installer/patch-debootstrap
+    <gg0> why "release" instead on "main" by default? sid is never released
+    <youpi> only because my mirror directory is hacked one
+    <youpi> that merges debian.org, debian-ports.org, and my repo
+    <youpi> and I don't rebuild Release files, just Packages files
+    <gg0> i keep getting gpgv: BAD signature from "Debian Archive Automatic
+      Signing Key (7.0/Wheezy) <ftpmaster@debian.org>
+    <gg0> just before creating debootstrap chroot
+    <gg0> i applied hunk #2 only, installed modified debootstrap and put debs
+      under localdebs/
+    <gg0> trying a different mirror
+    <youpi> I don't know what issue you are encountering
+    <youpi> but again, it's way simpler and faster to just patch existing
+      images, rather than rebuilding them from zero
+    <gg0> ok just read i'd need a local mirror to build isos
+    <gg0> better using netinst and proxy cache
+
+
+## IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2014-03-09
+
+    <gg0> teythoon: shouldn't there be a patch which shows pid instead of task?
+    <gg0> 20:43 < teythoon> task /hurd/procfs(19) <EF><BF><BD>O<EF><BF><BD>
+      deallocating an invalid port 1049744, most probably a bug.
+    <teythoon> there is
+    <teythoon> i placed the functionality in proc first, but the wiki suggested
+      to put it in the exec server instead
+    <teythoon> i did that, it has the advantage, that the argv vector is easily
+      accessible
+    <teythoon> so i can also include the program name
+    <teythoon> but there are two programs, that are not started using the exec
+      server
+    <teythoon> the root filesystem and the exec server itself
+    <teythoon> so for these two processes, the approach does not work
+    <gg0> i see. so here we got two which could come from
+      ext2fs.static(initrd), exec(initrd) and ext2fs(chroot)
+      http://postimg.org/image/e3qyafd0b/ right?
+    <gg0> i also noticed that once mtab dies, by killing its procfs parent,
+      they both restart, but /target/proc is not in /proc/mounts anymore
+    <youpi> teythoon: for those we could use the first word of the module
+      command line
+    <gg0> restart doesn't means that by accessing /target/proc/mounts again it
+      works btw, it'll give Resource lost again
+    <teythoon> youpi: indeed
+    <teythoon> gg0: no, the ext2fs for /target will be started by the exec
+      server
+    <gg0> ok two invalid ports one from ext2fs.static and one exec then
+    <teythoon> gg0: what makes you attribute one to the exec server ?
+    <teythoon> i'm pretty sure that there is a bug in libfshelp, it's easily
+      triggered by killing an translator like procfs
+    <teythoon> i must have introduced it with the translator list work i've
+      done for the mtab translator
+    <gg0> teythoon: a totally wrong task-is-a-process reasoning probably
+    <gg0> just mounted another procfs which seems to work
+    <gg0> http://postimg.org/image/q6w9xzo2j/
+      http://postimg.org/image/cr998jfkr/
+    <teythoon> gg0: the mtab translators in your screenshots are oldish, what's
+      the point exactly ?
+    <teythoon> gg0: also, all tasks are processes. task is a mach concept,
+      whereas process is a posix concept implemented by hurds proc server. it
+      creates a process object for every mach task.
+    <gg0> my guess was that given we got two messages with different taskid:
+    <gg0> 16:01 < gg0> ok two invalid ports one from ext2fs.static and one exec
+      then
+    <gg0> screenshot is this one http://postimg.org/image/e3qyafd0b/
+    <gg0> btw what do you mean by oldish. except first one 01:18 < gg0>
+      http://postimg.org/image/oca8ormaj/ the only with current debian
+      packages, remaining are done with your latest packages
+    <gg0> in all cases i boot using qemu multiboot
+    <gg0> root@hurd01:~# cat /proc/version 
+    <gg0> Linux version 2.6.1 (GNU 0.5 GNU-Mach 1.4-486-dbg/Hurd-0.5
+      i686-AT386)
+    <gg0> it wouldn't be bad customizing version somehow, last commit id for
+      instance
+    <gg0> or build date
+    <gg0> user01@jessie01 ~$ cat /proc/version 
+    <gg0> Linux version 3.11-2-686-pae (debian-kernel@lists.debian.org) (gcc
+      version 4.8.2 (Debian 4.8.2-7) ) #1 SMP Debian 3.11.10-1 (2013-12-04)
+    <gg0> user01@jessie01 ~$ uname -v
+    <gg0> #1 SMP Debian 3.11.10-1 (2013-12-04)
+
+
+## IRC, OFTC, #debian-hurd, 2014-03-10
+
+    <gg0> tschwinge: i just meant Debian Jenkins provides (hopefully for hurd
+      too) continuos testing of debian installer, it doesn't produce .debs
diff --git a/open_issues/performance.mdwn b/open_issues/performance.mdwn
index 3dab6d4c..64b245f2 100644
--- a/open_issues/performance.mdwn
+++ b/open_issues/performance.mdwn
@@ -239,3 +239,22 @@ call|/glibc/fork]]'s case.
     <braunr> teythoon: pahole is a very handy tool :)
     <teythoon> yes
     <teythoon> i especially like how general it is
+
+
+# Measurement
+
+## coulomb
+
+### [[!message-id "87wqghouoc.fsf@schwinge.name"]]
+
+## IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2014-02-27
+
+    <braunr> tschwinge: about your concern with regard to performance
+      measurements, you could run kvm with hugetlbfs and cpuset
+    <braunr> on a machine that provides nested page tables, this makes the
+      virtualization overhead as small as it could be considering the
+      implementatoin
+    <braunr> hugetlbs reduces the overhead of page faults, and also implies
+      locked memory while cpuset isolates the vm from global scheduling
+    <braunr> hugetlbfs*
+    <tschwinge> Thanks, will look into that.
diff --git a/open_issues/performance/io_system/read-ahead.mdwn b/open_issues/performance/io_system/read-ahead.mdwn
index 711f7691..59f22187 100644
--- a/open_issues/performance/io_system/read-ahead.mdwn
+++ b/open_issues/performance/io_system/read-ahead.mdwn
@@ -3064,3 +3064,13 @@ License|/fdl]]."]]"""]]
       mach-defpager)
     <braunr> rebase it, send it as a patch on bug-hurd, it should be
       straightforward and short
+
+
+## IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2014-03-04
+
+    <teythoon> btw, has mcsim worked on vectorized i/o ? there was someting you
+      wanted to integrate
+    <teythoon> not sure what
+    <braunr> clustered pageins
+    <braunr> but he seems busy
+    <teythoon> oh, pageins
diff --git a/open_issues/ti-rpc_then_nfs.mdwn b/open_issues/ti-rpc_then_nfs.mdwn
index c3dd4e26..46cc1c1c 100644
--- a/open_issues/ti-rpc_then_nfs.mdwn
+++ b/open_issues/ti-rpc_then_nfs.mdwn
@@ -103,3 +103,30 @@ re-enabled, [[!message-id "87hb2j7ha7.fsf@gnu.org"]].
 
     <pere> failing rpcinfo -p on hurd reported as <URL:
       http://bugs.debian.org/739674 >.  Anyone got a clue how to debug it?
+
+
+## IRC, OFTC, #debian-hurd, 2014-03-03
+
+    <pere> I was just tipped by sesse that the hurd fix for libtirpc probably
+      caused RC bug in nfs-common, <URL: https://bugs.debian.org/740491 >.
+      Have not had time to check it out more closely.
+
+
+## IRC, OFTC, #debian-hurd, 2014-03-04
+
+    <youpi> pere: I don't really see how debian/patches/05-hurd-port.diff could
+      break Linux' libtirpc
+    <youpi> AIUI, the patch has zero effect on non-hurd builds
+    <youpi> oh wait
+    <youpi> it's simply missing a reautoconf to get HAVE_SYS_USER_H undefined
+      in config.h.in
+    <pere> youpi: I am quite sure I did add the required dh_autoreconf call.
+      did you see a build log where it was missing?
+    <youpi> pere: ah, ok. Then 02-rerun-bootstrap.diff can be dropped
+    <youpi> and I don't have any further idea
+    <youpi> pere: maybe it's the autoreconf itself which broke something?
+    <pere> could be.  not quite sure how to find out.
+    <gnu_srs> pere: what about running autoreconf on the previous (working
+      version)?
+    <pere> gnu_srs: sound like a good idea.  perhaps a good idea to just
+      disable the two patches as a start.
diff --git a/open_issues/versioning.mdwn b/open_issues/versioning.mdwn
index 1987b6ca..18fb588e 100644
--- a/open_issues/versioning.mdwn
+++ b/open_issues/versioning.mdwn
@@ -66,11 +66,8 @@ In context of [[packaging_libpthread]]/[[libpthread]].
       could be the perfect moment to fix the /dev/fd/N problem without adding
       new RPCs, though we'd probably have to break backwards-compatibility in
       the exec server IIRC...
-    <tschwinge> pochu: Oh, I have to re-read that discussion, but thanks for
-      reminding!
 
-[[!GNU_Savannah_bug 28934]], [[user/pochu]], [[!message-id
-"4BFA500A.7030502@gmail.com"]].
+[[glibc#execve_relative_paths]].
 
 
 ### `time_t` -- Unix Epoch vs. 2038
diff --git a/open_issues/virtualization/fakeroot.mdwn b/open_issues/virtualization/fakeroot.mdwn
index 8901e1c3..88a18a93 100644
--- a/open_issues/virtualization/fakeroot.mdwn
+++ b/open_issues/virtualization/fakeroot.mdwn
@@ -24,6 +24,8 @@ License|/fdl]]."]]"""]]
     <youpi> it's just a argv[0] issue supposed to be fixed by exec_file_name
       but apparently not fixed in that case, for some reason
 
+[[glibc#execve_relative_paths]].
+
 
 ## IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2013-08-26
 
@@ -36,6 +38,9 @@ License|/fdl]]."]]"""]]
     < youpi> yes
     < youpi> pinotree's exec_file_name is supposed to fix that, but for some
       reason it doesn't work here
+
+[[glibc#execve_relative_paths]].
+
     < pinotree> it was pochu's, not mine
     < youpi> ah, right
     < teythoon> ah I see, I was wondering about that
@@ -73,6 +78,9 @@ License|/fdl]]."]]"""]]
     <teythoon> I believe I figured out the argv[0] issue with fakeroot-hurd
     <teythoon> but I'm not sure how to fix this
     <teythoon> first of all, Emilios file_exec_file_name patch set works fine
+
+[[glibc#execve_relative_paths]].
+
     <teythoon> but not with fakeroot
     <teythoon>
       http://git.sceen.net/hurd/hurd.git/blob/HEAD:/exec/hashexec.c#l300
@@ -1293,3 +1301,26 @@ License|/fdl]]."]]"""]]
     <braunr> teythoon: was it a big package ?
     <teythoon> half of the hurd package
     <braunr> that's not a port right overflow then
+
+
+## IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2014-03-05
+
+    <teythoon> youpi: what about the exec_filename patch series? even though
+      fakeroot still has some issues (has it?), i consider it worthy for
+      inclusion
+
+[[glibc#execve_relative_paths]].
+
+    <youpi> Roland was disagreeing with it
+    <youpi> iirc the fakeroot issue was solved
+    <teythoon> braunr: ^
+    <braunr> fakeroot goot a lot more robust than it used to be
+    <braunr> but i haven't checked that it actually behaves exactly like the
+      library for corner cases
+    <braunr> there are minor differences
+    <braunr> also, it seems to trigger concurrency bugs in ext2fs
+    <braunr> e.g. git reporting that files either "already exist" or "can't be
+      found"
+    <braunr> it happens (rarely) when directly using ext2
+    <braunr> and more often through fakeroot
+    <braunr> i didn't take the time to investigate
diff --git a/open_issues/visudo.mdwn b/open_issues/visudo.mdwn
index e9892e33..4e87fd8d 100644
--- a/open_issues/visudo.mdwn
+++ b/open_issues/visudo.mdwn
@@ -1,4 +1,4 @@
-[[!meta copyright="Copyright © 2013 Free Software Foundation, Inc."]]
+[[!meta copyright="Copyright © 2013, 2014 Free Software Foundation, Inc."]]
 
 [[!meta license="""[[!toggle id="license" text="GFDL 1.2+"]][[!toggleable
 id="license" text="Permission is granted to copy, distribute and/or modify this
@@ -16,7 +16,7 @@ visudo does not work:
 
     /etc/sudoers is busy, try again later
 
-Apparently there is some locking that sudo does which does not
+Apparently there is some [[file_locking]] that sudo does which does not
 work. Uninvestigated for now.
 
 One can just edit the /etc/sudoers file and take care of correctness by hand.